The great spectacle of the “fall of the wall” – Interview with contemporary witness Michael Wolski

09.11.2024 | www.kla.tv/31016

KlaTV interviewer Welcome, Mr. Wolski. Michael Wolski Thank you for the invitation from KlaTV. KlaTV interviewer Yes, of course. We are conducting this interview on a very memorable day, the anniversary of November 9th. We are now exactly 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. You are the author of several very interesting books on this very topic, which can also be found on your website. And before we begin, let us first introduce them to our viewers. Michael Wolski was born in Saxony in 1952 and grew up in East Berlin. He is the father of three children. After graduating from high school in 1970, he studied economics with a specialization in foreign trade. From 1974, Mr. Wolski worked in GDR foreign trade. From 1986 to 1990, he was the liaison officer for GDR foreign trade in the office of a US corporation in the International Trade Center in East Berlin. In December 1989, he took on the company's contract to set up a sales company in East Berlin. This contract was stopped again in January 1990. At the beginning of 1991, Mr. Wolski was transferred to Moscow. There he was the founder and head of the company's representative office in the USSR and witnessed the collapse of the Soviet Union and the transformation of Russia. In 1998, he returned to Berlin and worked as a consultant to Russian companies. From 2006 to 2012, he was the founder and head of the German-Bosnian business association in Sarajevo. Michael Wolski has been retired since 2014. He is the author of five books about the fall of the Berlin Wall. KlaTV interviewer In our memories and in media reports, the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 always appears as a peaceful revolution, as the result of the dissatisfied population in the GDR. Many people think of peace and demonstrations. And in your book "1989 Fall of the Berlin Wall, a look back after 35 years", you, as a contemporary witness, describe the fall of the wall as an event that was carefully planned and implemented. How did you come to that conclusion? Michael Wolski Yes, as I already described in my CV, I worked in the representative office of a US company in East Berlin from 1986 to 1990 and helped to build up the company's business in the GDR. And when the wall fell in November 1989, the Swiss head of the company that managed the office came in December and said, Mike, you've been given a special assignment. We're going to establish a subsidiary for sales in the GDR, just like in Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary. And your job is to initiate this establishment, so to speak, and to find a notary and a lawyer and which property and how many people, so to do this preparatory work. And now that was a few days before Christmas. I started that and then wanted to hold talks with the people responsible for each work phase at the beginning of January. And then on January 9, 1990, I got a call saying we were stopping everything. We are not setting up a subsidiary. Our business is being transferred to the German subsidiary. There was a huge company in the Federal Republic, in Neuss. And that surprised me. And I asked the question, yes, why is it being stopped? And then the boss told me, yes, we had received instructions from the USA. There would be no more GDR. That was on January 9, 1990. And if you go back in history, the four Allies and the two German Foreign Ministers only met on February 13, 1990. At that time it was decided to start talks about German unification. That means that the top management of the company already knew the outcome. And interestingly, before February 13th came, I received a second call where I was told that everything had to be done by June 30th, 1990, i.e. the integration of the GDR business into the West German subsidiary. Yes, and in May we found out that the currency union was on July 1st. And anyone who still calls it a coincidence is pretty naive, I think. KlaTV interviewer But that raises the question, who actually wanted the Wall to fall? Michael Wolski Well. Yes, when I was in Moscow, I spoke to a lot of people who were pretty competent. For example, former KGB members who were liquidated after the change. So the Soviet Union was dissolved, the foreign trade monopoly collapsed and the individual combines could now carry out export and import operations. And it was the case that in the foreign trade departments of the combines, which I now had to go to and no longer to the foreign trade company in Moscow, there were people who spoke fluent German. And when I then, well, my Russian and my English were not that professional, they asked me where I was from? And with Michael Wolski on the business card, it was not clearly identifiable like Fritz Müller or something. And then I said that from the GDR, and that brightened things up.s face. I was also fluent in German for five years in the GDR and I knew then that he hadn't been in the army because they were only ever in the GDR for a maximum of three years, the officers and those from the other troops were there a bit longer. And we had interesting conversations there, during which they told me a lot about the GDR that I didn't know about the leadership structures and the balance of power. Well, I read a lot then. Books by Soviet politicians, diplomats, secret service agents and so on. And slowly the picture became clearer that this was actually an event that was hidden behind a smokescreen. And the smokescreen was called a peaceful revolution. And in 2015 it continued. And in 2014, at the beginning of 2015, interestingly, there were three publications that shed some light on the matter. The first was that on November 2nd 2014 an article appeared in Der Spiegel saying that Gorbachev and Shevardnadze wanted the Wall to fall sooner. So the two of them went to Erich. They were in Berlin, there was a conference here. KlaTV interviewer When was that? Michael Wolski That was 87. In 87 on May 28 or 29 they went to see Erich Honecker and told him that the wall no longer fit into the image of the House of Europe, which Gorbachev had cultivated, and disarmament, and that he should remove the wall. And then Erich, so to speak, got up on the table and said no. Which was very cheeky, because Erich also knew that no more tanks would come, like in Prague in '68, if you didn't do what Moscow wanted. And then the two of them left. Interestingly, 14 days later it was raining in West Berlin and people were speaking on the west side of the Brandenburg Gate. And then, as you can see very clearly in the picture, there was this famous saying "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall". So he didn't say Honecker, he said Gorbachev. So he knew who was in charge. And because that didn't happen, there was a covert Soviet operation in 1989, and it's described in a book called Operation Lutsch. It was published at the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015, written by an undercover officer from the GDR military secret service, who described how the wall fell and what preparations were made. And a third point was the events in Hungary, with the dismantling of the border fortifications in 1989, where there was also this meeting, this picnic, where almost 700 GDR citizens took the opportunity and traveled to the Federal Republic via Austria. KlaTV interviewer Exciting. Have you had any more events like that, where you get the feeling that what happened here is like a script? Michael Wolski There were of course a few other events. If you look at November 9th, how this day was structured, how it went, it's all with images that we all know, but with a different interpretation. I also brought that up in the book, for example, what we will perhaps see later when Schabowski reads out his text, that something was missing from this text, but Egon Krenz had it written in, that there was a embargo period. KlaTV interviewer Do we want to hear that for a moment? Schabowski: Have we decided to make a regulation today that will make it possible for every citizen of the GDR to leave the country via border crossing points in the GDR? For the ministry's press department, the Council of Ministers decided that this transitional regulation would be put into effect until a corresponding legal regulation came into force through the People's Chamber. Michael Wolski And this text that he read out has the embargo notice. And that was not supposed to be announced on the radio until 5 a.m. the next morning. And this restriction was removed, so that he - there is a long version - sits there and looks and says that he somehow had the feeling that something like this must exist and has not found it. Which is why this triggered the run on the border crossing points. And that was also an action that was organized by the Soviet military secret service. KlaTV interviewer Now the question that many GDR citizens asked themselves at the time. Why were no shots fired? Michael Wolski Yes, that is the next point. So at the beginning of 1989 there was a fatal shootout at the border. The young Chris Geffroy was shot dead in Berlin. Which of course was an absolute disaster for Shevardnadze and Gorbachev for their policies. And since the western border of the GDR was under the sovereignty of the Warsaw Pact, it was announced in April by the GDR border troops, but decided by the Warsaw Pact, that no more firearms would be used on the western border. That was on April 12. That means that from that point on, the border guards were visibly armed with a submachine gunwent on guard duty, but without ammunition. And only the officers had ammunition for their personal service weapons. That means that from that point on it was already clear that this border regime was going to end. Of course that was not known. It was top secret. Because then there would have been a run on the border. KlaTV interviewer Yes, but there were not only GDR soldiers. People also asked themselves where all the Russian soldiers were, who were everywhere in the GDR. Michael Wolski Yes, and that was planned for the long term for this event, November 9th. So November 7th was the most important political holiday in the Soviet Union, the Great Socialist October Revolution. Back then it was October because they had a different calendar. And then these celebrations always lasted two days. So November 7th and 8th were holidays in the Soviet Union. Double holiday. And at that point the Soviet soldiers were quartered in barracks. In the GDR they were only allowed out in groups anyway, they were not allowed out individually. And then these soldiers were locked up in the barracks until November 13th. And there was another reason for that. There were 300 to 400 Soviet soldiers who deserted every year. Many wanted to go to the East. They wanted to go home. And some wanted to go to the West. And since on August 3rd or 4th, 1989, an East German border guard was shot by a fleeing, deserting, Soviet soldier on the western border, there was every reason to lock them up. Because if the border had been opened, Soviet soldiers with weapons could have mixed in with them. And then they could have caused a bloodbath. So. Of course, there were a few other points. The highest Soviet representative, political representative in the GDR, was the ambassador. And he could have triggered the deployment of Soviet soldiers to protect the state border. Just like in 1953, the then high commissioner in the GDR, Semyonov, ordered the use of firearms by Soviet soldiers on June 17th. That was not done in Moscow, but in Berlin. And to exclude any risk here, because they knew that the commander-in-chief of the Soviet soldiers here in the GDR was, let's say, difficult to assess, the Soviet ambassador was either given a sleeping pill or he took it. In any case, he was unresponsive that evening. And so the only person who could have ordered the use of firearms was not there. KlaTV interviewer Yes, and the leadership, i.e. Honecker and co.? Michael Wolski Well, they had something else going on at night when it was known, there was still this Central Committee meeting. The Central Committee meeting was supposed to end at around 6 p.m., parallel to when Schabowski was speaking. But people who had obviously been instructed by the Soviet military secret service or the GDR military secret service extended the meeting. They said that they couldn't disperse. There were so many problems. And so the meeting was allowed to continue until 8:40 p.m. That was exactly the time when Schabowski said that this was effective immediately, and people were already streaming to the border crossing, especially at Bornholmer Strasse. And that was then announced on television, first on East German television, then on West German television. And the Central Committee were sitting in isolation, so to speak. There were no cell phones at the time, so no one could play and cry out and say, oh, what's happened now? No, no. And they only became aware of it at around 10 p.m. The GDR Ministry of Defense was in Strausberg and not in Berlin. And that's where they first drove out. So after 8:40 p.m. they were still in Strausberg at around 10 p.m. And then word started to get around. And the Soviets had a hand in it, so the idea of ​​maybe deploying the first motorized rifle division was rejected. KlaTV interviewer Exciting. Michael Wolski And if you still have questions, but there were peaceful revolutionaries. Of course there were, because they were prepared. So that was from the Soviet military secret service, not from the Stasi and KGB, but also from western services, so people went out on the streets, people protested, put candles in the windows and, and, and. So that already existed. Because they needed it later to tell the story of the peaceful revolutionaries. And there couldn't just be three people there and say, here, these were the three peaceful revolutionaries. That wouldn't have worked so well. So it had to be a mass movement, also territorial, so not just Leipzig and Berlin, there were demonstrations in other cities too. KlaTV interviewer Exciting. So to summarize this up to this point, because we are also seeing tens of thousands of people taking to the streets on Mondays, just like back then, to demonstrate. Now you say that the Soviet leadership basically planned the fall of the Wall and exploited this demonstration. Now at the end you also indicated that the Western secret services also played an active role. So do I understand this correctly? East and West, who were actually officially enemies, are working together on an agenda here? Michael Wolski I think so. It is possible, this common thread has been running through history since 1917, 18. There are now countless books that prove that this cooperation existed. Much of it was in the economic area, but some was also in the political area and there was certainly regular coordination between the services of the countries. KlaTV interviewer Exciting. So there were something like bridges between the Eastern and Western blocs? Michael Wolski I would say yes. Well, I worked on a bridge like that. It was in trade. The GDR was very interested in these US companies coming. These US companies, when they started in 1985, must have known something because they came at the same time and wanted to have GDR citizens as employees. They could have brought their own people with them, they could have looked for people in West Berlin and they could have taken foreign traders arranged by the International Trade Center. And they wanted the latter. But they weren't there. A search operation had to be started first because these people needed a Western passport. So they had to have gone through all the GDR mills, so to speak, to be travel cadres. And then I was approached and the job interested me. And then I said yes. And then I started in this job at the beginning of 86, in April. But there were several more bridges, if we think back. Angela Merkel comes from a pastor's family. And the pastor, Mr. Kassner, had a training center for theologians in Templin. And theologians from Western Europe were also regular guests there. And they probably already had an eye on Angela. KlaTV interviewer Who knows. But that does sound like there is an agenda going on here. A plan that hasn't just been thought up yesterday, has it? So how long has it been going on? Michael Wolski I think so. We don't have to go back to Karl Marx and go into detail. But "Proletarians of all countries, unite!" only works if the capitalists of all countries are united. Because the proletarians are dependent on the capitalists. But there was the October Revolution in 1917. And there have been a few books since then, especially from the USA, where the connection between Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution has been described in great detail, for example by Anthony Sutton. And it was also described how Trotsky and Lenin went to Petrograd with financial means, the one from the founders of the Federal Reserve and the other from the German Abwehr, to start this revolution there. The former because they saw the country ripe for collapse, the US bankers, in order to get the country under their wing, so to speak. And Lenin because he was needed to bring about the armistice and later the peace treaty, and to liberate Germany from the second front. In other words, the peace treaty of Brest-Litovsk was then signed. And Germany withdrew from the Allied entente. Russia withdrew. At that time it was still the Russian Empire. The Soviet Union was only founded in December '22. But that was a transitional phase. And at that time the Americans installed a man who already knew Lenin and made the first treaties with Lenin. That was Armand Hammer. And until his death in 1990, shortly before his death, he was the liaison between US capital and the Politburo. And all of the Soviet Union's major import projects for plants, hydroelectric power stations, and also the land and lease agreement during the Second World War were concluded under his aegis, so to speak. Oh, and by the way, Armand Hammer was a billionaire. Over the years, that is. His father was the founder of the Communist Party, the co-founder of the Communist Party of the USA. And of course he was also a recipient of the Order of Lenin. KlaTV interviewer A clear connection between the two blocs, one must say. But now again, because I think it is crucial for what is happening today, let's look back. You said that the FED, that is, the Federal Reserve, the most important financial oligarchs in the Western world, initiated the October Revolution. Michael Wolski Yes. KlaTV interviewer Then they must have had very clear financial interests? Michael Wolski Well, of course. The interest was to control Russia. But you couldn't do that directly. So they tried. There was this civil war, in which American, English and Japanese participants were also involved. But the country was simply too big. And that's what they tried to do, to establish a regime that was dependent on them, but which was not known in the world. Nobody would have thought that these Russian communists were ultimately financed by the West in the initial phase and then later controlled. That is also the reason why many people cannot believe that the Soviet Union dismantled its system itself. Yes. So the fall of the Berlin Wall was practically the loosening of the clamp around the socialist countries of Europe. The withdrawal of the Soviet army, which lasted until 1994. And then the destruction of the Soviet Union itself. And Gorbachev, when he took office, described it nicely with perestroika and glasnost. Perestroika means restructuring and glasnost is transparency. And he wanted to change that. And what we then experienced was that the oligarch caste emerged from that and the Politburo and the party with all its structures suddenly disappeared. And the class struggle that we had then mutated into a climate struggle. KlaTV interviewer Okay, that brings us to the present day, I think. That would have been my next question. So, you described how there has always been the influence of the big financial oligarchs in the history of Russia or the Soviet Union. Well, and today? Michael Wolski Well, I think they are still in control. But they are not so visible. And what we are being fogged up with, up until 1990 in the Eastern bloc, i.e. party of the working class, class struggle, proletarians of all countries unite, all these empty phrases have now been replaced by other empty phrases. And that is the question of how this came about. Why did this change happen? And we have to go back to the building of the wall, and also to the Berlin Wall. Because in the 1960s there was this change, but behind the scenes, from the previous socialist system to the development of a new strategy and theory and so on. Let me explain it like this: the building of the wall was ordered by the Soviets in 1960, i.e. the preparations had to be carried out so that the GDR could then procure everything with its planned economy, these building materials and the manpower to go with it. And then the wall was built. The reason was that the Western Allies did not want to accept the Soviet proposal to change the political landscape in West Berlin, the Berlin Ultimatum. And then the Wall was built and then it was realised that this had practically brought the GDR to the brink of ungovernability, in other words economic collapse. This was not planned, no one had suspected it, but it proved that the socialist planned economy did not work in the GDR, the only industrial country in the Eastern Bloc. You have certainly heard of the Commercial Coordination department with its boss, then boss Alexander Schalck-Golodkowski. This story begins in 1962, when Schalck-Golodkowski became first secretary of the SED district foreign trade leadership and was now being pressured by the 30 or so foreign trade companies that existed - others were not allowed to do this in the GDR - to lower their export targets. This is because the GDR was an industrial country and it bought raw materials and semi-finished products in order to process them and then sell them on around the world. Worldwide, primarily the Federal Republic, of course. But because this planned economy was so rigid, smaller, what do you call, repairs, spare parts, accessories could not be bought and then the machines stopped working. And then the companies, the foreign trade companies, came along and said, yes, we can't export because company XY can't deliver because there are no spare parts. And in 1962 and 1963 Schalck and his MFS commanding officer had already thought about how something could be changed, but this was brushed off in Moscow. In 1964, the situation continued to worsen, Khrushchev was overthrown and in 1965 the okay was given from Moscow that this structure could be run parallel to the planned economy as private foreign trade in the GDR. Then there was the founding charter in 1966 and then this area of ​​commercial coordination was established by decree. So it was not published in the Official Gazette. That would have been counterproductive. The West would have been slapping its thighs for days because it had been proven in the GDR that communism did not work.But that then led to the West receiving information about this from 1968 onwards from a defecting Czech Stasi general, that in 1966 at the autumn meeting of the Warsaw Pact it was announced that this entire socialist doctrine was being changed and that the aim was to "let the West grow into socialism". And interestingly, last year the former head of the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution said that he confirmed exactly that. KlaTV interviewer Do we want to hear that? Maaßen I am a lawyer, my boss would be a dictator or would-be dictator and I would say, Mr Maaßen, think about how you can turn a liberal democracy into a totalitarian state that functions the way I want it to. Then I would also think about what mechanisms you can use to undermine the whole system. And a system is to transform it into a collectivism where all people are mainstreamed and all people think in the same direction, to make them afraid and to set an overarching goal before their eyes. And I have to say, the idea of ​​using the climate to undermine the constitution was thought up by a clever person. I know that in the 1960s there were people in the KGB who were thinking about how the West could grow into socialism. At that time the KGB was already discussing the issue of environmental protection, with the issue of the environment, with the issue of anti-racism etc. you can persuade people to say, well, let's just forget about democracy and the rule of law, put it aside, the most important thing is anti-racism, the most important thing is the environment. Those were ideas that the KGB had in the 1960s. But I have to say, bringing up the issue of climate, I have to say, chapeau. It's really a great achievement to use this climate issue to undermine the democratic constitutional state. Michael Wolski Yes, and that brings us to the goals that were set in the Soviet Union in 1966. The first goal was to allow the West to grow into it. And the second goal was to make money from the climate. And that's what happened. So the first step was that in 1967 the Club of Rome, the founder of the Club of Rome, so to speak, was advised on how to set it up and what the focus should be. He flew to the Soviet Union at the time and had lengthy discussions. And after that, when the Club of Rome was founded, two KGB generals were always members, full members, of the Club of Rome, until 1992. I can't say what happened after that. But it's documented. And another point is that a joint institute was set up near Vienna with the Americans to wind down the Soviet Union, where from 1982 onwards the political personnel were trained for the period after perestroika. That means that names like Tschubais, Wechselberg, Arwen and so on were trained there and then, at the end of perestroika, were involved in privatising public property, state property. And they then became the billionaires or oligarchs we are talking about. In the USA it took 200 years for these oligarchs to emerge. And here it was three to five years that these oligarchs developed. And everyone was amazed at how quickly these people became rich. KlaTV interviewer Rich through what? Michael Wolski Through privatisation, because they were at the source and were able to privatise the relevant companies, the state-owned companies. It was a pretty complicated process. The book describes exactly how this process went. And the oligarchs from the West, the financial oligarchs, were also involved. And they had picked out the best parts of the raw materials industry. And Khodorkovsky is one example. Abramovich is one example, who received loans from the West, had received loan commitments, since 1988. And then, when the privatization was underway, they acquired these companies as trustees, so to speak. Of course, this was not visible. Trustees, yes, they gave it to someone. But he was at the front. And everyone thought that he was the owner. And Roman Abramovich has 100 million, this is also documented in the book, there are these finches in the USA, a kind of control unit that investigates financial crime. And there is a longer article. So he got 100 million dollars as a loan and then invested the money in an oil company, which he then sold ten or twelve years later for 13.5 billion dollars. Well, and he now lives off the three percent, yes. KlaTV interviewer That's a bit extreme. So, if I've understood correctly, an insane redistribution of the populationksvermögen? Michael Wolski Yes, after the first revolution, when all the churches and the nobles and the large landowners, the merchants and the entrepreneurs, in other words the capitalists, were all expropriated. Many were murdered in the process, many fled to Europe. And that was the second redistribution campaign, where this time individuals became rich within a very short space of time. Back then, in the early 1920s in this turmoil, everything was practically shoveled into the state and not given to individuals, i.e. re-allocated. So, and now what Mr Maaßen said about the climate, that is the third redistribution. Because now the class struggle has become the climate struggle. And if in the past that was someone who was a capitalist, so to speak, today the enemy is the climate denier, the climate sinner, the climate-who knows what harm. And so this whole ideology has now reached a level where CO2 taxes, the whole organic issue is also part of it, so that everything that is organic is more expensive, but also the restriction of mobility. We are now seeing that the VW group is being reduced, in other words, shrinking. And ultimately that means that because people no longer want private transport for climate reasons, see 15-minute cities, you can do everything there by bike. And if you then want to leave the 15-minute city, you need a permit in China. Otherwise you won't get through the barrier. And so the forces that have now organized this are making money again. Money is being made out of hot air. And I am referring now to Mr. Maaßen. KlaTV interviewer Exciting. That means that to summarize, you could actually quote our nice WEF initiator. Michael Wolski Yes. KlaTV interviewer Klaus Schwab. Michael Wolski Yes, that's interesting too. They were founded in 1972, this WEF, World Economic Forum. Through him. And it's still there today, a kind of fossil. "You won't own anything and you'll be happy." That's the goal. And that means we're back in a socialist society. Now, through these CO2 taxes, new heating systems - 40 percent of people in Germany have their own home. And I don't know how many will then be able to afford a new heating system. Yes. And then the famous Black Rocks and similar companies will probably stand there and say, okay, we'll buy it from the bankruptcy estate, from a foreclosure auction. KlaTV interviewer Yes, I would say it's very, very enlightening how far we've already come in this current third process. Michael Wolski Yes. KlaTV interviewer You really have to ask how much socialism really died in 1989. But to sum it up, it may be very difficult to imagine that there are hidden forces here that are obviously working against the well-being of the people. And so far, so devilishly clever, you could almost say, so all-encompassing actually. Michael Wolski Yes, that it is probably all controlled by artificial intelligence. KlaTV interviewer Yes, at the end of this very interesting interview I would ask, what can you do now? Michael Wolski Well, you can stabilize yourself by getting comprehensive information, not just getting your intellectual sources from Tagesschau, MoMa and Netflix, but by using alternative media or taking inspiration like this. I have almost 100 links to the Internet in this book, where you can find links on a wide range of topics, where you can also gather new ideas and then look further. But that means that you get active and don't just sit in front of the TV in the evening with a bag of chips. KlaTV interviewer Yes, I think we'll take the active part with us. Thank you for the interview. Michael Wolski Thank you too. KlaTV interviewer And then we'll see each other again. Michael Wolski Yes, thank you.

from ag. rw.

Sources/Links: Webseite Wolski https://www.1989mauerfall.berlin/#toggle-id-1
Spiegel Gorbatschow u. Schewardnadse https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/vorab/gorbatschow-und-schewardnadse-wollten-frueheren-mauerfall-a-1000505.html
Reagan vor Brandenburger Tor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IguMXrgfrg8
Dokument Aufhebung Schießbefehl https://www.stasi-mediathek.de/medien/befehl-an-die-grenztruppen-ueber-das-aussetzen-des-schusswaffengebrauchs/blatt/27/
Pressekonferenz Schabowski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llE7tCeNbro
Video Maaßen zu Klimadiktatur https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2ktcjmoDqI